Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc - General

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Forum Discussions General Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

2/10/2008 3:07 PM

	hoknes
3 posts

Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

[originally posted 6/24/2007]

http://www.hoknes.com/marvel1970new.htm

Please check out this site I created which I hope to do a large series of them based on my knowledge of comics history

I'd love to hear your opinions and get suggestions to improve this

Please forward this link to others you think might be interested in reading or helping out with in the future

Thanks

Terry Hoknes hoknes@hotmail.com

MARVEL COMICS - 1970 - ALL NEW SERIES DEBUTING THIS YEAR

Guide to all new series published in this particular year with Overstreet Price Guide Values and CGC data

All new titles debuting for the first time (or coming back from a minimum 6 month hiatus) are listed.
This gives us a full guide of what new ideas were being promoted by the company at the time.
1st Issue - is the first issue of the series - always a #1 issue unless its an old series restarted
The debut cover date is given as well as the final issue cover date.
Genre of the series and the total # of issues published in a consecutive row is given (meaning regular printing - no breaks over 6 months for monthly titles)
Sample prices of NM copies from Overstreet are given for various years for investment purposes
CGC Sensus numbers are given for number of Universal Grade slabbed comics for high end plus a grand total of all Universal copies
Extra CGC info is given if of note - check out more detailed statistics at www.cgccomics.com
All cover galleries and credits and story details are published at the GCD - Grand Comics Data Base
Series reference # is given to match at www.comics.org
Titles Ending this year show an end of an era for some classic titles which ceased publication
Series title is given plus the year its current run had originally debuted - they are sorted oldest to newest

Item	MARVEL - 1970	1st iss	New	Start		End

1	Ringo Kid		1	yes	1	70	11/1973
2	Where Monsters Dwell	1	yes	1	70	09/1971
3	Captain Marvel		20	no	6	70	08/1970
4	Two Gun Kid		93	no	7	70	04/1977
5	Where Creatures Roam	1	yes	7	70	09/1971
6	Amazing Adventures	1	yes	8	70	11/1976
7	Astonishing Tales	1	yes	8	70	07/1976
8	Iron Man Special	1	yes	8	70	Nov/71
9	Ka-zar			1	yes	8	70	03/1971
10	Lil' Kids		1	yes	8	70	10/1970
11	Outlaw Kid		1	yes	8	70	10/1975
12	Western Gunfighters	1	yes	8	70	11/1975
13	Conan The Barbarian	1	yes	10	70	12/1993
14	Harvey			1	yes	10	70	12/1970
15	Spoof			1	yes	10	70	10/1970
16	Fear			1	yes	11	70	12/1975
17	Nick Fury Agent of Shield 16	no	11	70	03/1971
18	X Men Special		1	yes	12	70	Nov/71
19	X-Men			67	no	12	70	01/1981

END	X-Men (63) Captain Savage (68) Silver Surfer (68) Mad About Millie (69) Chili (69) Chamber Of Darkness (69) 			
END	Homer The  Happy Ghost (69) Peter The Little Pest  (69) Captain Marvel (70) Lil Kids (70) Harvey (70) Spoof (70)

Analysis of New Titles in 1970

19 new titles marked the beginning of a new decade. This was the most new titles started by Marvel since 1957 just before the Atlas Implosion. 4 older series were re-started.
X-Men re-started as a reprint series only - sales were low on this title. It had just ended its original story run earlier in the year before being brought back. Yet Marvel gave them the first X-Men Annual/Special the same month.
The push on westerns was strong with 3 new titles plus the restart of Two Gun Kid. Its success would be proven as it would last until 1977 longer than any other new title besides Conan and X-Men.
Three new Horror titles were started. 2 of them would last until the Horror genre started fading in the mid 70's. Marvel continued to enter in the kids/teen market with 2 lighthearted series which sold poorly and are the rarest new comics. This can definitely be seen by the small number of copies graded CGC.
The biggest comic story of the year was Marvel's version of Conan The Barbarian. It would be the biggest new title - the longest running and the most valuable. However possibly the most common as it was highly saved by collectors from day 1 - note how many copies have been graded by CGC. Interesting to note that 41 copies sent in to be graded were restored as I would assume most of the collectors didn't know that as we are still in an age of turnover. 1970 was the first year of the Overstreet Comic Price Guide so no new comics possibly were assumed to have any value ?!? Note that due to being such a common book that Conan #1 has actually fallen in value a few times over the years as it was considered priced too high mainly for its age.
X-Men #67 is the start of the new run of the series but only lasted till 1981 because the title changed to Uncanny X-Men at that time and is considered a new title for my listings.
Spoof is listed as a one-shot issue because a #2 never came out until 26 months later and so i list it as a new series with #2 in 1972.

August 1970 saw the debut of 7 new titles - this was the most new debuts in a single month for Marvel since December 1949. 1949 is the peak year for the most new titles with 51 new series debuting yet ironically they were almost all Romance, Teen and Western genre titles.
In the 1990 Overstreet Guide many issues were still valued at less than $1.00 even after being 20 years old. It was in 1998 that the bronze age oddball genre faze caught on and most of these books saw the largest single year gains in value. There is now a minimum value of $30.00 for a #1 Marvel issue from 1970 no matter what genre.
12 titles ended in 1970 - most of them were teen or kid themed titles. This was the most cancellations of titles since 1957 when the Atlas Implosion cancelled over 60 titles.

COVER GALLERY OF NEW SERIES DEBUT ISSUES THIS YEAR - COMICS

Please help us compile further data on the history of comic books from all angles - look forward to hearing from you

Further discussion on comics history and sales figures at www.comichron.com

Email - Terry Hoknes - hoknes@hotmail.com

2/10/2008 3:09 PM

	John Jackson Miller
55 posts

Re: Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

[originally posted 6/24/2007]

That's very interesting! Seeing the Overstreet data on a timeline is really interesting -- it's not something I've ever done, but then in the CBG/ComicBase database we did have an annual tracking feature (and ComicBase users actually get a little graphic). The problem with getting much use out of those is that they were very sensitive to sudden changes due to new information -- take a look at Overstreet with Harvey there in 1998. My guess is that they got a new advisor who cared about that material around then, hence the price skyrocketing. What does the yellow shading mean?

Best, John Jackson Miller • Curator, The Comics Chronicles

2/10/2008 3:10 PM

	hoknes
3 posts

Re: Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

[originally posted 6/25/2007]

I've been working on this research on and off now for the past 13 years as you can see evident by all the inputting I did in the mid 90s - I'm really trying to get back on track with this - but it takes a lot of work and I want to make sure people get to see this. The yellow shading means that particular year the comic went up in value over the past year in Overstreet. Tell me about your annual tracking feature in ComicBase !!? Harvey had a big jump in 1998 but pretty well all non-superhero titles that year did - that was the big boom year in the guide when it finally caught up to the demand for these obscure genre titles that were now approaching 30 years old. I was one of the biggest collectors of these books and had one time had every non-hero Marvel and DC book from 1965-1980. I did sell off my collection to help buy a house. I look forward to hearing from you more about all of this. I have lots of great plans including publishing a book about comic history meets comic investing.

2/10/2008 3:12 PM

	John Jackson Miller
55 posts

Re: Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

[originally posted 6/25/2007]

The ComicBase tracking feature is simply a field for every year that an edition of ComicBase has been released, so that everything you've done for Overstreet is right there on the page for the comic book in ComicBase (although with Comicbase/CBG's prices). The page for each comic book also renders a graphic, showing the comic book's changes over time.

Again, we tended to find that the big moves on those graphs were more like the one we're talking about with Harvey -- where the pricers were making a revision to something that had been in the guide for years -- as opposed to a true jump from one year to the next one. I was able at one point to square all the annual price changes in Excel so I could see which ones were going up or down by the most -- and the real outliers tended to be for these reasons. Really, the most solid numbers were always the CGC auction histories, as you could spot a 10% or 20% change in a year there and really be sure that it meant something, because the underlying data was plentiful and sound.

A lot of the ComicBase activity has moved on to Atomic Avenue, which is finally running after extensive betas, I understand.

Best, John Jackson Miller • Curator, The Comics Chronicles

2/10/2008 3:14 PM

	hoknes
3 posts

Re: Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

Modified By hoknes on 2/10/2008 4:15:09 PM)

[originally 6/27/2007]

I checked out atomic avenue - interesting site - tons of info there - so its all using the CBG prices correct? That is very interesting - though oddball titles such as Harvey was my specialty and I do feel the overstreet prices are now possibly too high but the CBG prices are too low. Oh well!! Do you keep track yourself of CGC sales still? Is there a backup database of past sales posted online somewhere??

Off topic a bit, do you know if a person wants to publish a book and show comic book covers from Marvel and/or DC for example - do you need to get some type of "permission" from them to show these images ?

2/10/2008 3:20 PM

	John Jackson Miller
55 posts

Re: Discussing the history of Marvel and DC based on classic titles values cgc grades etc

[originally posted 6/27/2007]

CBG/ComicBase's figures were always lower than Overstreet -- a difference in data collection and approach. On the other hand, the CGC numbers we had were always as solid as they came.

Online tracking of CGC is both done by GPAnalysis (can't remember the link) and also by Darryl Buchanan of The Comic Sheet, with whom we worked on the project for many years.

If the images of the comics are the point of the book, then, yes, you'd need permission. If they're there as illustrations to support something else (like a price guide), then, no.

Best, John Jackson Miller • Curator, The Comics Chronicles

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